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Asunto:Re: [STARS] Una pregunta...
Fecha: 14 de Noviembre, 2005  03:43:48 (+0100)
Autor:Antonio García <ningunotro @.......com>
En respuesta a:Mensaje 2306 (escrito por Tarumbar ZardoZ)

"Tarumbar ZardoZ" <@> dijo:
> 
> Alguien me podria echar un cable con las formas de hacer un intercambio de 
> tecnologias de la forma más optima ??
> 

Practicamente todo lo que querrías saber, aunque está el la lengua de
Shakespeare. La pregunta es demasiado genérica para darte una respuesta concisa
en castellano. Si no te pone de camino la lectura en inglés, concretiza un poco
la situación para que pueda recomendarte alguna técnica en particular en
castellano. He intercalado algunos comentarios en castellano.

Tech Trading

*** El orden de eventos en Stars!, siempre importante. Algunas características
son especialmente útiles de saber para organizar ciertos tipos de intercambio
tecnológico

      Order of Events
         1. * Scrapping fleets (with possible tech gain)
         2. * Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done by hand) *
         3. Waypoint 0 unload tasks
         4. * Waypoint 0 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible
tech gain)
         5. Waypoint 0 load tasks (if done via task tile order)
         6. MT moves
         7. In-space packets move and decay
               1. PP packets (de)terraform
               2. Packets cause damage 
         8. Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and
defences)
         9. Fleets move
        10. SD Minefields detonate
        11. Production (incl. research, packet launch, fleet/starbase
construction)
        12. SS Spy bonus obtained
        13. Population grows/dies
        14. Packets that just launched and reach their destination cause damage
        15. Random events (comet strikes, etc.)
        16. * Fleet battles (with possible tech gain)
        17. Meet MT
        18. Bombing
        19. Planets with 0 colonists become uninhabited (lose starbase and
defences)
        20. Waypoint 1 unload tasks
        21. * Waypoint 1 Colonization/Ground Combat resolution (with possible
tech gain)
        22. Waypoint 1 load tasks
        23. Fleet Transfer 



El Know-how


      Guts
          o Technology can be gained from either an ally or an enemy, in the
following circumstances:
               1. Scrapping fleets at a starbase (per fleet scrapped)
               2. Surviving a combat where ships destroyed were in battle (per
battle location)
               3. Successfully invading a planet with your colonists (per
invasion) 

*** Solo hay 3 formas: 1) Reciclar flotas en una base. Da igual de quien sea la
flota, el propetario de la base tiene una posibilidad por cada una de las flotas
recicladas de llegar a conseguir como mucho 1 nivel tecnológico (siempre que
alguna technología en las naves sea superior en nivel a la propia).
                       2) Sobrevivir a un combate donde fue destruida alguna
nave con tecnología superior, una posibilidad por cada combate de tales
características.
                       3) Invadir algun planeta ajeno con éxito, una posibilidad
por cada invasión.


            For each "event" there is a chance of gaining a level of tech, and
the chance is determined by the number of tech fields, higher than your own,
available at each event. For scrapping and battle, a ship scrapped/destroyed in
the event having a part requiring a greater level to build in on of the 6 tech
fields, invasions count any fields the other race has are ahead of yours. Though
you can have several events (and thus chances) happen in a single turn, you may
only gain a single level of tech, by any of these methods in each turn.

            For each tech trading event, there is a 50% chance of not gaining
any tech at all from it.


*** Cada uno de los eventos que se produzca dará posibilidad de conseguir el
único nivel de tecnología que puede ser obtenido a través de intercambio
tecnológico en cada turno. De entrada, cualquier evento adecuado tiene un 50% de
probabilidad de no reportar nada.


                  *** then *** For each tech trading event which passes the 50%
chance above, there is a 50% chance per field available, that is higher than your
own, that you will gain a level in that field. With a maximum of a single tech
level in a single field per turn. If there is only one tech field up for grabs at
an event you have an overall chance of 25% for gaining a tech level (50% x 50% =
25%).


*** Si entra en el 50% positivo, hay otro 50% de posibilidad de ganar algo por
cada campo tecnológico donde haya algo que fuera destruido que sobrepase tu
propia tecnología. Se evalua por campo hasta que como mucho uno haga bingo.


            For your convenience, here is a table listing the % chance of
gaining a tech in various situations (numbers in %):

 # Higher
Tech Fields
 Available
     6    |   49   74   87   93   97   98   99   99   99   99
     5    |   49   74   86   93   96   98   99   99   99   99
     4    |   47   72   85   92   96   98   99   99   99   99
     3    |   44   69   82   90   94   97   98   99   99   99
     2    |   38   61   75   84   91   94   96   98   99   99
     1    |   25   44   58   68   76   82   87   90   92   94 
---------------------------------------------------------------
               1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10 
                           Tech Trading Events

*** Tabla de probabilidades por areas tecnológicas que se retrase uno y número
de eventos que se producen en el turno.


*** Transferencia de componentes del Mistery trader para otra ocasión

      Trading Mystery Trader Parts
          o Mystery Trader Parts can only be traded via scrapping or via battle
and not through invasion.
          o The chance of getting a part is based on the number of MT items in
the whole fleet (upto 25 items per event).
          o As with trading tech levels there is 50% chance of not getting an MT
part per event.
          o After the above check, there is a 1% chance per MT item present of
gaining the design.
          o The total chance per event with the max 25 items is 12.5% (50% x
25%)
          o This is the one instance where having multiple copies of a component
on a single scrapper is advantageous.


*** Primera forma: reciclaje. Se construyen naves baratitas con algún componente
baratito que proporcione la tecnología que se quiere transferir. Se trasladan
hasta una base del colega y se reciclan en su órbita. Cada flota que se recicla
es un evento, así que recuerda separar todas las naves.


      Tech Trading by Scrapping
          o How to set up:
               1. Each side builds several "scrapper" ships each turn (scout/FF
hull with QJ5/FM engine and a tech item in the field you wish to trade)

               2. Each side sends/gates the scrapper ships to a
starbase/spacedock owned by the other player, and gives it orders to scrap itself
there, making sure that they are separate fleets of 1 ship each.

          o Advantages:
               1. Easy to setup and and requires little co-ordination.
               2. Allows precise control over what tech fields are traded. 

          o Disadvantages:
               1. Has a constant cost as you have to build new scrappers each
year.
               2. There is a small amount of added MM each year with managing
the scrappers.
               3. Cannot trade levels until you have a ship part with that level
in the field or above.
               4. Cannot trade levels above the highest tech level ship part in
each field. 

          o Points to be careful of:
               1. The chances of gaining a tech through scrapping are based on
the number of separate map fleets you scrap and not the number of ships in each
fleet, so remember to "split all" before scrapping the the fleet.

               2. You can scrap ships at any type of starbase, including orbital
forts.

               3. You don't need to transfer your ships to the enemy for him to
be able to gain tech from them, you just need to scrap them at one of his bases,
which saves a year in the transfer cycle but removes an element of control from
the recieving player.

               4. Only have one of each component on each scrapper design,
having more than of an item will not improve your chances of a tech trade, only
your costs. 


*** Segunda forma: Batallas sobrevividas. Preparese algún lugar donde el/los
compradores de tecnología puedan estar al acecho y juntense allí con algún diseño
con capacidad para participar en una batalla y sobrevivir. El vendedor de
tecnología envía al lugar algún diseño con la tecnología a transferir y
susceptible de ser masacrado. Organizen las amistades y las órdenes de combate de
manera que se eviten sorpresas desagradables.

    
      Tech Trading by Battle (Wolf/Lamb Sites)
          o How to set up a site (for unarmed lambs):
               1. Each race builds a wolf, which is an armed ship design, and
sends it to the location of the wolf/lamb site, and gives it battle orders to
attack: "unarmed ships"/"nothing" + "everybody"

               2. One race builds a lamb ship each year, and unarmed scout/FF
each year with a tech item and sends it to the wolf/lamb site where it gets
killed, thus giving each of the wolves present a chance to learn in that tech
field. 

          o How to set up a site (for armed lambs):
               1. As above, but the wolves are given orders to attack: "armed
ships"/"nothing" + "race sending lambs" 

          o Advantages:
               1. Good for large alliances (3+ players) to trade, each sending
lambs to 2-3 sites each 

          o Disadvantages:
               1. Requires quite a bit of co-ordination to setup
               2. Has a constant cost as you have to build new scrappers each
year.
               3. There is a small amount of cost to setup each site
               4. There is a small amount of added MM each year with managing
the scrappers
               5. With multiple sites it is difficult to control which fields
are traded
               6. Cannot trade levels until you have a ship part with that level
in the field or above.
               7. Cannot trade levels above the highest tech level ship part in
each field. 

          o Points to be careful of:
               1. When using armed lambs, ensure that the lamb isn't powerful
enough to kill the lambs.

               2. If some of the ship fail to appear in the combat, ensure that
they all have orders to attack the lamb or that lamb has orders to attack them.
If they aren't attacking or being attacked then they won't take part in the
battle

               3. Only have one of each component on each scrapper, having more
than this will not improve your chances of a tech trade

               4. Battles happen after production; any research you do will
occur before the trade 


*** Tercera forma: Por invasión de un planeta ajeno. Esta forma no permite
elegir la tecnología que se recibe. Hay dos formas, una lenta automática y una
rápida manual. 

La lenta: 1. un jugador coloniza un planeta (puede ser rojo) con 100 y tiene una
nave con suficientes colonistas en órbita ese mismo turno.
          2. Da órdenes a la nave de alejarse del planeta una nimiedad, volver
al planeta y descargar 200 colonistas. Póngale atributo repetitivo a tal orden.
          3. El otro jugador da en ese mismo turno orden a una nave con
colonistas de ir hacia el planeta y descargar 200 colonistas, y después alejarse
del planeta una nimiedad. Póngale igualmente atributo repetitivo a tal orden.

Voíla, piloto automático hasta que alguna de las naves se quede sin colonistas
(se puede recargar via rendez-vous sin interrupción.

Cada jugador tiene la posibilidad de conseguir tecnologuía el turno que se queda
con el planeta. Ojo, el cambio de titularidad del planeta cada turno es como un
semáforo que alerta a cualquiera sobre lo que está pasando.


    *
      Tech Trading by Invasion
            There are two ways / speeds of doing tech trade by pop drop:

          o How To set up for Slow Speed - Fully Automated
               1. Race A to colonize a spare planet with 100 pop (red will do).
               2. Race A has a freighter full of pop in orbit of the planet
               3. Race B has a freighter full of pop a few ly from the planet
               4. Both races give repeat orders for their freighters to goto the
planet, drop 200 pop and then leave
               5. Both ships alternate, each recapturing the every other turn 


*** La rápida: 1. un jugador coloniza un planeta con 100 colonistas (puede ser
rojo)
               2. ese mismo jugador tiene una nave con colonistas en órbita y le
da órdenes de descargar 200 colonistas, alejarse una nimiedad, y volver.  Póngale
atributo repetitivo a tal orden.
               3. ese mismo jugador tiene una nave con colonistas fuera de
órbita y le da órdenes de ir hacia el planeta y descargar 200 colonistas,
alejarse una nimiedad y volver.  Póngale atributo repetitivo a tal orden también.
               A partir de aquí para este jugador la cosa es automática.
               4. El otro jugador mantiene una nave con colonistas en órbita, y
desde el mismo turno en que ve el planeta colonizado, descarga cada turno
MANUALMENTE 200 colonistas.

Cada jugador tiene posibilidad de ganar tecnología cada turno, y el planeta
SIEMPRE aparece propiedad del primer jugador, desaparece el efecto semáforo.



          o How to set up for Fast Speed - Manual Control
               1. Race A to colonize a spare planet with 100 pop (red will do).
               2. Race A has a freighter full of pop in orbit of the planet and
a second one a few ly from the planet
               3. Race B has a freighter full of pop in orbit of the planet
               4. Races A gives repeat orders for both his freighters to goto
the planet, drop 200 pop and then leave
               5. Race B each year manually drops 200 pop on the planet as a
waypoint 1 task
               6. Race A owns the planet at the start of the turn, race B
pop-drops it as a WP0, then the race A freighter does a WP1 pop drop to reclaim
the planet again. Thus both sides get a chance to gain tech each turn. 

          o Advantages:
               1. Has no ongoing costs.
               2. For slow speed invasion trading, there is no added MM after
setup.
               3. Can trade up to level 26 in all fields 

          o Disadvantages:
               1. Requires quite a bit of co-ordination to setup
               2. There is a small amount of cost to setup each site.
               3. Requires the loss of a few colonists.
               4. Requires the use of a planet for each tech trading site
               5. It is difficult to control which fields are traded
               6. You cannot trade with AR races using this method
               7. For fast speed tech trading there is a small amount of added
MM each year.
               8. For fast speed tech trading, if Race B must manually drop
population each year, or the system gets messed up.
               9. If the population on the planet dies through being on a red
planet, you have to recolonise. 

          o Points to be careful of:
               1. It is advisable to keep a spare colony ship handy in case the
planet become un-colonized

               2. For fast speed, if race B forgets to drop colonists one year,
Race A should do nothing, but Race B should drop 400 colonists the next year.

               3. WP0 Invasions happen before production, WP1 invasions happen
after production; gaining a tech level increases the cost of all tech levels in
all fields, by 10 resources, in addition to the increased cost for the next level
in field. Keep this in mind if you are tightly budgeting your research to gain a
particular level. 


Un saludo.
Antonio


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